nPost Blog

Interview with Auren Hoffman, CEO of Rapleaf

Auren Hoffman of Rapleaf discusses the future of the social graph and how industry, the government and individuals will have to adapt to the availability of personal information online.

Interview conducted by Nathan C. Kaiser on Wednesday, July 9, 2008 in San Francisco, CA.

I am here today with Auren Hoffman of Rapleaf. Auren, would you mind giving us an introduction to your startup?

Rapleaf is creating a portable social graph of the Web. We have graphed out over 42 million people. And we allow companies to access that graph so that they can provide better products to consumers.
How would you define a social graph to your mother, father or cousin?
The social graph is basically who you are friends with, who you know and how you potentially know them and how those relationships are around us.
It leverages the social networks that are out there, like LinkedIn, MySpace, Facebook, etc. to identify who is connected with whom.
That is a small, but important piece. More importantly there are all of these other people that you might be interacting with online, or you are linking to on your blogs, or you are talking with in a forum, a discussion forum and that you have a relationship with.
In terms of the consumer application, what is the value to me, the end consumer, to sign up and see what is going on with my identity online?

There will be a way for consumers to sign up and see the publicly available information that exists on them on the Web; at least, the publicly available information that we were able to find on them. They can then use that to manage their identity and identification online. Basically, anything we can find, anyone else can find. Rapleaf only finds publicly available information on people, and it will be really great if consumers can understand very easily what other people can find on them quickly.

Then, from an enterprise perspective, what type of specific services are you providing to enterprise clients around the social graph of individuals?
We allow companies to understand who you know better so that they can provide you with better user experience. That could be a lot of different types of things, like, maybe, they are providing you with a better movie recommendation or hotel recommendation or some other types of things so that they can understand who you know better. Or it could just be directly. Ideally, you can get ideas that your graph is portable so you show up somewhere and you could take that graph with you.
You plan to sell this data to online publishers and advertisers.
There is no limit to the imagination as to what one could do if they had access to a social graph. I think, once people realize they can access the social graph and it’s not just behind some walled garden somewhere, then we are going to see developers use their imagination in ways that we can’t even think of.

You may fly on United Airlines, and they are going to seat you next to a friend of a friend. Or when you show up to Marriott, they might ask you when you show up; do you want me to alert your friends that you are here?

You can imagine a lot of different things that would happen when developers really use their imagination, using this portable social graph.

In order for that to happen, are you trying to create or are you creating a platform by which outsider, third party developers can leverage the social graph that Rapleaf is creating?
Yes.
When attempting to build a platform, what are the first steps to doing so?

We are providing the graph and the data and giving people the APIs and the tools to basically build things on top of that data.

We are working with some current customers right now to build some really cool things that they are going to be launching over the next couple of months. Then, we are going to be showcasing and hopefully that will spur other innovation and other people to do really cool things with that data.

When you are building out a platform, what essentially are kind of the monetization opportunities that present itself?
We’re in some ways just a data provider. In some ways it’s not different from how Google Maps works. If you are a power user of Google Maps and if your website is calling Google Maps a lot, you get a certain number of calls to Google Maps for free. And then after that you have to pay Google every time you query, or if you are really big you might negotiate a monthly fee that you pay to Google. We envision charging in a way similar to that.
How did you develop that partner graph or that database of users?

Basically we searched 140 million people. We crawled the Internet, we crawled the public data and email on these people. And then we built these profiles on people. The profiles consists of a lot of things, but the most important thing is who these people know, and then we create a big graph out of that. We’re adding about 800,000 people a day.

What are the key areas in which consumers as well as enterprise or companies are looking to leverage this type of information?
I think your social graph can be useful anywhere you go. Most places you go have some sort of concept of a graph, but they have used a very little bit of it because it is very hard currently to recreate your graph everywhere you go.

For example. I’m a Netflix user. I love Netflix, I think, it’s a great service. You can share cues with your friends, and you can share reviews and other types of things, what movies you have rented, with your friends. It’s great.

So, I share it with my brother. My brother and I have very similar movie tastes, and we really like sharing these things. However, I really haven’t shared it with most people because I only have like two friends in Netflix. Recreating my graph in Netflix would just take me too long to do. They’re not really set up for me to do that, and it doesn’t really work very well.

Now, if I could just bring my graph to Netflix and then I could choose off that graph which of the people I want to share with… Obviously it’s sensitive information, which movies I get. It’s not going to be with my full graph, but maybe it’s with a portion of my graph. That would be really useful to me, and really useful to a lot of people that use Netflix.

Another thing could be when I visit a city or something. I’m going somewhere and it would be interesting… I really like this service called Doppler. Doppler is a great service. I show up at Doppler and I can put in what cities I’m going to, and then it can alert my friends if we’re going to be in the same city at the same time.

That’s really useful, especially if you’re in a random city. I was in Salt Lake City, and it turned out someone else I know was in Salt Lake City, and we could meet up. It’s kind of cool.

However, the problem is that I have to recreate my graph in Doppler. I may actually do that in Doppler, because it is quite a useful service. It would be much more beneficial for me as a user if I could just show up and I had my graph with me, and then I could just tell Doppler which of these people I would like to share my travel with.

As more and more personal information is available online, where do people begin to draw the line to what is acceptable and what isn’t?

I think, that in a data driven world, consumers should have the right to control their own data. The government shouldn’t control it, companies shouldn’t control, although the government and companies have a lot of responsibility dealing with that data. The consumer should have the ultimate right.

In the end, ultimately the data should be owned by the consumer himself or herself. That means a few things. That means consumers should have a right to go to another site and ask that company, “Tell me all the information that you know about me.”

So, for instance, if I walk into Macy’s the store, and let’s say they’re tracking what aisle I’m walking down, if I go to them they should actually show me the information they’re tracking on me. Or, if they know what I’ve bought, even if it’s an offline environment, they should be able to tell me that.

In any environment, I believe people should be able to see the information that they have. Now, we haven’t done that yet at Rapleaf. We hope to do that in the future. I hope that a lot of other companies do that soon as well. Essentially, sunlight in this case we believe is the best disinfectant.

The second thing that we think is important for people is that you should have the ability to change the data if it’s incorrect, to delete some or all of the data that you don’t want there. Basically, to change or delete some or all of the data. We think that’s really, really important. It’s very important for consumers to be able to do that.

The third thing is, you should be able to move the data. If a company is tracking on your advertisements what you’re clicking on and stuff like that, that might be fine and that might actually be beneficial to you. You might want them to do that. You even might want a new company to have that information as well, because it could be potentially helpful to you and you could see better advertisements.

You should be able to move that data over to some other company. Data about you wherever you go should be portable if you give access to that information to make it portable.

Now, a lot of things are maybe a long time away from happening, but it doesn’t means that companies, whether it be small companies like Rapleaf or big companies like Google or Axiom or ChoicePoint shouldn’t be focused on working toward those goals.

What do you see is the best mechanism to ensure that level of control happen? Is this something that you believe the market can effectively police or do you feel or see that the government will regulate?

I think that’s a very tough question. Eventually, the will government regulate this activity whether people want government to or not because I think, it is quite sensitive. The government will get involved, especially as breaches of this information become more common place. The reason why it’s a big problem is there is more data being collected about you than ever. It’s something that I think, is even scarier is that the number of organizations that are collecting data about you is also increasing every year as well.

So there’s hundreds and thousands of companies which are collecting very detailed data about you today. Those companies include big companies like Google, but they also include very small companies like some store you walked into one time and made a purchase, to a whole bunch of other government institutions, to the library, to DMV, to a lots of other places which are collecting data about you. Some other companies have breaches of information, sometimes they lose data, sometimes they’re careless, sometimes these companies maybe a small number but because the log numbers are so large, it could be a significant number are bad companies and they might be doing bad things with the data.

Because of that, I think, this always makes me as a consumer worry and, I suspect, they will make other consumers worry as well. So, I think, companies will, eventually, have a choice. Either they’ll allow consumers to have control over data and they’ll do their best to self regulate that’s what we hope to do at Rapleaf…or maybe, potentially, government will regulate it themselves.

Now, when government does regulate, it got two choices. They can regulate from top down kind of EU type manner or they can regulate by empowering consumers or allowing consumers to have access to the data and have access to sunlight. I hope that when government does regulate, they regulate in a way that will empowers me, as a consumer, and allows me to decide how I want to share this data with people rather than telling me, as a consumer, how I must share that data with people.

Is there the chance that whatever regulation, whether it be industry or government driven, that they will not catch up with what is happening and how the data is used because that is also happening or changing exponentially?
Absolutely. This is why regulation often doesn’t work in a fast changing environment because it’s very unclear how this data will be used in the future. Like all technology, data can be used for good and it can be used for things that aren’t so good. Nuclear technology can stop me from having to use oil and coal and it could power the energy of all the super computers like Google and it could also be used for very bad things like bots. Obviously, Google itself, as a search engine, can be used for good and I would say like 99% of the time, it’s used for good. But, there is a small percent of the time where people use it to stalk people or to find out things like how to make a bomb or to learn about other things that people might do on Google.

So generally, technology is used for good but there are many instances where it’s not. It’s unclear sometimes how you regulate it because it moves so quickly. In this case, in the data case, it’s sometimes unclear how it’s going to be used in the future. The only thing we know is that some of the users will be quite good and quite beneficial to consumers. There will be some uses which will not be so good or, at least, to certain consumers, they’ll not feel it’s very good. Those things should if there’s some sort of consensus around it should be regulated or hindered or stopped in some way.

Interview with Dave Rice of Dipiti

Dave Rice, CEO of Dipiti shares his insights into the power of information and its availability.

Interview conducted by Nathan C. Kaiser on Tuesday, May 6, 2008 in Seattle, WA.

I’m here with Dave Rice of Dipiti. Dave, would you mind giving us an introduction to the start-up?

Dipiti is all about trying to help people find answers for urgent life questions. We do that by searching message boards and community sites where they can find the interactions and answers they seek for urgent issues such as health, money, legal matters and pet care.
Is this information not available within other services (ie. Google or Yahoo)?
This information is certainly out there on the web and so it is found by other search engines like Google.

Due to the nature of the content, it doesn’t show up really high on search engine results and Dipiti is different in that way. We specialize in the community content and we’re making sure that our search works very well with the natural language that’s used in these discussion forums.

In addition, we provide an added value, almost a Consumer Reports type of service, in that we rate the level of activity on a site and their privacy policies to make sure that we can provide trusted sources of information to our users.

The privacy requirement can be very important, especially when someone is looking for medical of financial information.
We are in a position of making referrals to those sites. And, we don’t want to blindly send people to other sites on the web. We want to make sure that we can feel confident that we’re providing added value of information by rating those sites and evaluating those privacy policies.

We’ll still provide the link to the site but it won’t show as prominently in our results. We will flag it that it has a weak privacy policy – if it is going to capture their email addresses, for instance.

How large is the market for this type of service?
The market base is immense. A huge volume of the search traffic that takes place across the web is for these types of urgent, life matters. And, while on any given day a search for a specific celebrity who’s in the news is going to top the charts.

There is a very large base line of traffic for health, financial, legal and pet care questions.

The best quantification I can give you is that, in a given year about 80% of American’s will search for health care information online.

The need for Dipiti is really illustrated by the fact that less than 16% of those who search for health care related information actually find what they’re looking for.

You are providing a solution for an urgent need. How do you balance that one-time need with a long term relationship with consumers?
That’s a really good question. Over the long term, we’re providing additional services that personalizes a user’s experience with search and also their interaction on Dipiti.com. So that we do provide that trusted destination for more than just one specific life issue.

The, “boil the ocean” approach, the broad approach that Google provides is extremely valuable. And I know that I use it many times a day. But, also, there isn’t a week that goes by where I don’t have multiple questions of my own that Dipiti can be a good service for.

Establishing the trust with our user community and making sure that we have those urgent matters – not just a single specific market such as health care. But, expanding to those other matters that are important in people’s lives gives us a broad enough scope to be a frequent-return destination site.

It still maintains the focus that we need in order to provide category-specific search behavior that really delivers superior results to what a very broad search solution like Google can provide.

Do you see a continued progression toward very focused search solutions?
I think you’ve hit on something that’s a really astute observation. In that the explosion of content on the Internet is an immensely valuable resource if we can effectively access that information.

And that’s something that Dipiti is trying to do in a very focused way and that other companies are trying to do as well. I do think that it is going to be a very high growth segment within the Internet; adding the human filter to that – the human intelligence – so everything is not machine driven. But we can make some real assessments based on inspection of those sites is labor intensive but it also brings an additional dimension of value that our user community seems to appreciate very much.

What are your plans for growing your initial user base?

Right now we are doing a number of things including getting our name out in the news as well as buying key word searches on Google and other sites; such that we can expose users to the value that we provide. Over time we will syndicate our product out to third parties.

Really, our objective is to, as you suggest, expose as many people as possible to what Dipiti offers and build a user community that way. Some of that will be on our site, some of that will be with partners who embed a search widget, for instance, in their own site.

What is your plan for revenue? You have advertisements on the site now. As you expand the service and the functionality, do you plan to begin licensing your technology to other services?
We’ll certainly work with them to build a traffic base. For those companies that are very sensitive to branding, we’ll deploy our product to them on a white label basis so they can present their own brand appeal to their audience.

Online advertising and professional referrals are our primary sources of revenue as we go forward. We actually look forward to sharing that revenue with our partners.

For a very early start-up, what do you see as the key components to laying the foundation for success?
The first thing we have to do is deliver true value to a user base, because without that we don’t have the durability of a concept here. Along with that value we do have to have a way to make money, because it does cost something to provide this service to the community.

Beyond that, really it’s about respecting that user base and building a team that is enthusiastic about delivering something new and different that our users appreciate. And that enthusiasm is contagious, both inside the business as well as with the user community.

Having received a B.A. from Stanford and your Masters in Oregon, and now working in Seattle, what do you see as the different components necessary to build a vibrant start-up community?
You know Seattle has all of the key components, which is really exciting. It’s wonderful to be working in this community. Those components are usually backed up by strong educational institutions, so you have that base of employees that’s well prepared to contribute to the technology demands and the market demands of the start-up enterprise.

The investment partners that are required to support those businesses in the early stages and the Seattle venture capital community are really refreshing to work with. I’ve enjoyed all of my conversations with the different firms here.

And the variety of service providers that are needed in order to support early stage companies, because they’re not going to do everything internally. They need to reach outside the walls and develop the partnerships, both in terms of a vendor base with whom they can collaborate as well as the other companies they can partner with to fuel each other’s growth.

What are the key characteristics you look for in the team that you put together?
It really comes down to the same reason that I was attracted to the team at Dipiti. The founders had done a great job of thinking through the business opportunity and the value propositions that they could offer to people online. They’re very passionate about it and without that passion a start-up is going to be troubled.

Certainly we need a great skill set, but also the flexibility and excitement of working broadly across the organization, particularly at the beginning when you have a pretty small team. In my daily life I go from being a CEO, to a direct sales person, to being the chief cook and bottle washer. And that’s something that everyone has to be able to enjoy and work with fluidly as demands on the organization change.

And then we look for everyone’s ability to scale with the organization; to bring some real distinctive capabilities over time. And when you can find employees that bring that mix of talents then you’ve got something really special. And we have that here at Dipiti.

Interview with Jonathan Sposato of Picnik

Jonathan Sposato, CEO and co-founder of Picnik talks about Picnik and the migrations of applications from the desktop to online.

Interview conducted by Nathan C. Kaiser on Monday, May 5, 2008 in Seattle, WA.

Jonathan, would you mind giving us an introduction to Picnik?

Picnik provides everyday people with real photo editing super powers right in a browser. Traditionally, the only way for people to work with their photos would have been via Photoshop, which is very expensive. It’s a big, heavy application. It needs to be installed, and then after that you have to learn how to use it.

Picnik is very easy. There is nothing to download. There is no installation process. All you have to do is open up any browser on any computer and you have a whole wealth of photo editing super powers.

How did you and your co-founders come up with the idea?
I would say that it was a slow evolution of a number of different ideas. It first began with my two business partners, Darren Massena and Mike Harrington. Those two had actually gotten together first and started thinking about where software was going to go.

Even as recently as eighteen months to two years ago, people were still thinking that software delivery was downloadable executables or bits that would actually come on a DVD that you have to buy off the shelf. This whole notion of delivering software applications, not just documents but applications, that are interactive and dynamic and rich over the Web was really a new concept. They had started thinking about that and laying the groundwork for that.

They then began coming up with ideas for Web application that would be really challenging. Essentially, they wanted to find an application that everyone else was saying would be impossible.

At the time there were some people that were already starting to do things like word processors or spreadsheets. Nobody was tackling the photo editing problem. The second insight was if we are going to do a Web application, then let’s do just an awesome and fun photo editor. That’s when Picnik was born.

Why did you decide to build a very difficult application?
There were multiple goals, and I think that depending on who you spoke to on the team they might have a slightly different interpretation. But, my perspective on it is that I really feel like the marketplace value is uniqueness in the world of technology.

People will notice the thing that is hard to do. If you pull it off, you are probably limiting, the set of competitors that you are going to have in your space. You are limiting it to either the companies with the most talent or the most resources to bring to bear, sometimes both. You are not going to necessarily have everybody in their garage working on the same thing, so that’s one of the reasons why photo editing was interesting to us.

Photo editing cuts across many different market segments. It doesn’t matter if you are a young kid who spends the majority of her time on MySpace or Facebook all the way on up to the, what I call the female CIO of the family, the chief information officer of the family whose job it is to organize the family’s photos, to print them out, to make greeting cards and send them to the grandparents, to make birthday cards, things like that.

Going further to older, knowledge workers or to people who traditionally don’t use technology very much but need to do so in the course of their work, such as real estate agents, who have to upload pictures to the MLS and make the pictures of those houses look great. To all of those segments, something like Picnik is highly relevant.

When you launched the service, was your plan to market directly to potential users or to work with third party sites and services?
Truth be told, it was a combination of both. I can’t say that there was a specific preference at the beginning for whether this was going to be 100% consumer facing application that we would market directly to consumers versus licensing to other companies and have Picnik be embedded with their experiences.

I think from the beginning we knew that both were opportunities and we have been pursuing both from the beginning.

As to the trade-offs between the two I would say that it definitely is easier to market directly to end consumers or to reach end consumers. I would say that it is a great testament to how incredibly efficient today’s Internet marketplace is that if you really have something that is valuable and it is out there. Granted, you have to reach a certain critical mass of utility and also a certain critical mass of buzz or general awareness on the part of users in the blogosphere and people talking about you and understanding how to find you.

Once you get there word spreads pretty darn quickly across broad consumers with or without strategic partners. As I look at both sides, both are incredibly valuable to us.

As you were building out Picnik, how did you allocate resources and time for both a consumer and partner approach?

I literally did bounce back and forth between those two things, at once trying to think about ways to market ourselves and do great proactive PR and get the word out there and at the same time calling up strategic partners or people who could potentially be strategic partners. Reaching out to Yahoo and Flickr and trying to get the name of a Product Manager that would have ownership of this issue and getting that person interested in talking with us and developing that relationship. There was a lot of wearing both of those hats at the same time.

I would say more crucially on the development side, on the engineering side the team has done a fantastic job of again bouncing back and forth, especially earlier on when we were a smaller team, from, here’s a bunch of features that will go into the product that would reach the end user. Then we got to a point where then, OK that’s good. Let’s push those bits out there and see how they resonate.

Then, let’s take the next few weeks off from doing end user features and focus instead on working on an API.

What is your revenue model for Picnik?
There are several ways that we can make money. One option is a ‘freemium’ model where we give away enough of the product for free that it fuels growth and people are interested in it and it’s useful. There is always a certain percentage of people that will pay extra for the additional advance features or extra bells and whistles and priority service and a lot of things that are important to them. We want to continue to provide great value to those folks.

Of course, when you have roads on the free side there is money on the table, if you will, if we don’t also take advantage of that traffic and serve up ads. Ads are an expected part of today’s Internet, for better or for worse, and there is revenue that can be gained from there.

Lastly, there is also revenue to be gained from Picnik being an end-to-end experience which is allowing people to go all the way from the beginning of their workflow to taking a photo and thinking about-what is it I want to do with it-to the end of the workflow where they may embody the photo in some way. They may want to print it out in some way. Put it on a mug or a t-shirt or make a calendar or cool greeting cards.

We have partnerships with print companies. The main one is where we do revenue sharing based on print products that are created using Picnik. That’s another means that we make revenue. There are others too that we are working on.

All of that is replicated, if you will, when we partner with a large distribution partner. When we partner with a Flickr or you see Picnik in Facebook or MySpace, what happens is that you will see all of these different ways of making revenue echoed or reflected again in that context.

Do you see the trend of more services moving online? Is there a natural limitation to what can be done online versus a desktop application?
I am going to be obnoxious and say something that it’s going to be hard for me to prove but equally hard to disprove. I would say that there are not natural boundaries to how far this can go. If you look across the world of software and think about things that seems like they are really hard to do, the hardest things to do are things like multi-player games. Things that happen in real time where a lot of graphics have to be pushed around very, very quickly, where performance is very important, where synchronization of different player states or just application states. It just has to be very real time and correct and accurate. I would posit that the world of gaming is the most difficult kind of software you can write.

That to me becomes a benchmark or a test of like could that some day be done. Can those things some day be done as Web applications instead of desktop applications? My answer is yes, I think you can do those things eventually. We can’t do that now, but eventually Moore’s law will come into place. The technologies that are going to be enabling whether they be Flash or Flex or Ruby on Rails and other things like that, they are going to get better and better and you are going to be able to do more and more.

I actually see no reason why the more Web application models will be curtailed or contained in any significant way.

What are the key issues that limit adoption of online services at this time?
The key limiter is bandwidth. But, I would actually caveat that with the fact that I believe really great development teams, really great software developers can always find ways to architect the application in such a way that they work around those band width limitations. Whether it’s how they architect a product, what gets handled on the “client’s” side versus the server side, the frequency or amount of communication that is required between client server, all of those things if you are clever enough I think you can get around those limitations. That is why I actually did not ultimately posit those things as immediate limiters in the short term.
This is your second entrepreneurial venture after having worked at Microsoft. What would you say is the biggest issue in transitioning from a company such as Microsoft to running your own venture?
It was a world of difference. It was like being on another planet. I used to joke that it was a lot like unplugging from the matrix. There’s a great scene in the movie The Matrix where the character Cypher is eating a steak in the matrix, and the streak tastes really, really good, and he says in his mind, “I know that the steak isn’t real, but man, it tastes really good.”

So, with all due respect to folks that are working at Microsoft or any large corporation, I do believe that the advantages there are that you get used to having a lot of resources at your disposal. Things are just magically done for you, whether it’s how you actually file a trademark or patent an application, to pulling the trigger to hire more engineers or designers.

These are things that there’s all these wonderful processes in place to help you so that you don’t really have to worry about doing that much. But when you’re doing a startup, in a way when you unplug from the matrix all of the sudden you’re like, hey, the gritty real world, it’s tough out there. It’s a jungle out there and you’ve got to be really self-sufficient and do everything.

That definitely was an important realization. One is not better than the other. Like everything else in life, it’s just that you have to pick the trade-offs that you’re willing to make.

An addition difference is you don’t have to wait to be given permission, you don’t have to wait to have your analysis or the team’s conclusion be vetted in time by others. You have a quick meeting, you draw a conclusion, and you can move forward.

There were moments early on you stand around after the meeting and go, “Now what? Oh, we just go it. OK, go!” So, that was an important realization.

Was Picnik self-funded or did you seek outside investment?

It was self-funded. It continues to be self-funded by the three principals of the company: myself, Darrin and Mike. I would say that I think there was, if I recall correctly, always a specific thought to not want to take outside funding if we didn’t need it. It’s actually been a lot of fun to fund it ourselves. And since we are actually drawing an income, we’re actually making money. It means that the three of us aren’t writing checks forever, so that’s nice.

I would encourage others that, if there’s a way that they can self-fund or even angel-fund for the early stages. I think precisely because today’s Internet is so efficient, you should be able to get up and running pretty quickly and get a product or something out in front of real people, and get feedback from the marketplace telling you whether this sucks or it’s great.

You should be able to do that very quickly, inside of a year. That means that your costs don’t have to be very high.

With the costs to starting a company continuing to decline, I assume it becomes even more important to build in barriers to competitors, which goes back to on of your original points about tackling a very difficult space.
Absolutely. That was an inherent advantage and something that was very designed into the process of creating Picnik. We wanted to do something that was hard, that if we did well meant that we were a cut above the rest. Inherently there’s not going to be a lot of people that are going to be able to keep up.

We still feel that way. We still think in those terms that there’s directions and new places that we could take Picnik to that is uniquely suited to who we are as former game developers–so I hit the game analogy a little bit hard earlier precisely because we used to all make games for a living. We think our approach to product development, application development is a little bit different from most.

The second thing is that, again more generally, the marketplace values uniqueness. When you do something that by definition not a lot of people, people will pay attention to it and take notice and say, “Oh, that’s what I’ve been loving for. I’ve been looking for a lightweight, easy to access but very powerful and fun to use photo editor that I can use for all of my photo-editing needs, and here it is. Nobody else has done it, but these guys have done it.”

Interview with Charles Seybold, CEO of LiquidPlanner

Charles Seybold, co-Founder and CEO of LiquidPlanner shares his insights into building and coordinating large projects within teams.

Interview conducted by Nathan C. Kaiser on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 in Seattle, WA.

I’m here with Charles of LiquidPlanner who’s the CEO and co founder. Charles would you mind giving us an introduction to LiquidPlanner?

LiquidPlanner is an online project management environment. It enables teams to build schedules they can trust, stay connected with each other, and get things done.
Microsoft Project is one of the most utilized project management solutions out there. What are the competitive differentiators between the two services?
I used to actually work at Microsoft and I actually worked in the Microsoft Project business unit. I’ve some familiarity both as a user and from the inside perspective. It really transformed the industry.

The goal for our company is to continue to transform Project Management with better tools that match the reality of today’s project teams. What we discovered, and what our team discovered, was that the tools on the market didn’t really work the way our team’s work and our goal was to fix that problem.

What are the unique needs or solutions that Microsoft Project doesn’t provide that LiquidPlanner solves?
The team at LiquidPlanner came from big companies like Microsoft, Intel, Amazon, and Expedia. We were part of hundreds of projects both as individual contributors, managers and stakeholders. And we started to recognize a set of problems. The first one is actually scheduling in and of itself.

What we discovered is that the schedules are based on single point estimates which means that you’re giving one number to estimate something. And what that fails to do is capture the uncertainty inherent in pretty much everything we do.

LiquidPlanner allows you to capture and manage that uncertainty. We fundamentally change the way we approach scheduling. We call it probabilistic scheduling and we have a new scheduling engine that handle that.

The second thing that LiquidPlanner does is it looks at project management as the social application that it really is. We’ve redesigned everything from the ground up to keep people connected and engaged with the planning process.

Lastly, we learned that your planning tools really need to be a single source of truth and that requires a complete project environment, not just something used at the beginning of the project, but something that helps you execute throughout to the completion of the project.

Microsoft Project provides a clear understanding for a timeline but doesn’t capture all the other multi faceted areas of a project or the planning that goes with it.
That’s something that people really miss quite a bit. We’ve spent a lot of time designing a complete project environment. It’s easy to think that project management is just about projects and tasks but there’s a whole bunch of things involved: your documents, and your schedules, your promise dates, your discussion streams, the history that goes along with everything, all of your reporting. This is all part of that environment and it’s everything that’s required to actually get things over the finish line. This has to also be managed.
LiquidPlanner launched at DEMO. How valuable was it to have your team focused on launching with that clear deadline?
Tremendously crucial because we’ve been working on the product for over a year and it’s easy to get lost in all the ideas that you have. We used the event to make sure we were focused and to help us make decisions on what’s the way for subsequent releases and what have you to get done now. And you really need to you have, but it’s also important to ship. So we used the event to really make sure we were focused, and help us make decisions on what to leave for subsequent releases, and what had to get done now. And you really need an event like that. It could have been something else, but demo as a platform for emerging technology was really perfect for us in terms of timing, and in terms of audience.
Who are your target customers?
Our initial market is small to medium sized businesses, which is a really interesting market. Most people don’t know how big it is. Project based solutions, as it currently stands, is projected to be a 6.5 billion dollar market by 2010.

The thing that we find really interesting from our research is that only half of our prospective customers actually use these tools, and instead are using things like spreadsheets, or white boards, or other alternatives. We think that a lot of planning, particularly casual projects, is not even captured in that. We’re focusing on expanding the market perspective. We look at the market in terms of the 36 million knowledge workers that are out there, just in the U.S.

We think that that’s the important segment that LiquidPlanner is really focused on, is today’s knowledge workers who are in an environment where everything is very highly collaborative, teams are living in project centric organizations, feedback is very rapid, you have short cycle times, and everything is highly transparent. That’s nothing like what the market was when project management tools of today were really created. Those really trace their roots back to the 1950′s when the Critical Path method was invented.

How do you plan to go after small to medium sized businesses?
That’s a good question and we are coming at this a little bit differently than others. We look at how project management is being sold today and it’s largely being sold to the C level office, at Fortune 500′s specifically. Somewhere along the way one of the things have been lost is delivering value to the people on the front line.

Our strategy is to drive awareness by getting this in the hands of as many people as we can on the front line. Because we actually thing the product is highly differentiated and really offers something new. So that’s how we’re initially going to market.

We’re finding in the people who have already signed up that that’s being validated. We’re seeing people in small and medium size businesses coming to us saying this is really what they’re looking for. And that’s really helping us guide what the definitive go to market strategy will be.

We’re also seeing a lot of independent teams in larger organizations reach out to us, as well. So we kind of have this strategy of bringing innovation to the sales model, as well as bringing innovation to the product. And that’s kind of all I really want to say about it right now.

There is a certain viral aspect based upon the members of the team that are created by the individual users who initiates the different projects.
Project management has a moderate amount of viral factor to it. I’ll say that we do look towards companies like Salesforce and SugarCRM as good role models of how to go to market. So there will definitely be telesales involved, there will be some level of direct sales involved, and there will be some level of free product, as well as product that’s really easy to get into for small teams. Our goal is to make sure that trial is incredibly easy.
Is this your first start up in which you are one of the founders?
This is my first founding start up. My background is most recently corporate. I worked at Expedia for about ten years here locally. Before that I worked at Microsoft for three years. But prior to that I was in a few start ups. In one of them I was the first employee.
So it’s safe to say that you’ve had the bug, but fought it off for a while?
I have had the bug. In fact, when I was in my earlier start ups, and I was not a founder, I enjoyed them but had had enough of it and said, “Well, I’m going to go work in the corporate world for a while and said I was never going to do a start up again. Eventually I realized I was doing start ups within larger organizations, and changing jobs every 18 months. I was an “intrapreneur.” So it was time to jump out and do something serious, and put my money where my mouth is.

I realized I was doing startups within larger organizations and changing jobs every 18 months that I was kind of an entrepreneur so it was time to jump out and do something serious and put my mind where my mouth is.

What are the keys to running a successful within a startup?

That’s a great question. Well having only taken this path once I’m used to the merits of this path. I think in any endeavor, you tend to pay the price for the short cuts you take.

When you take on an area like project management it comes with a great deal of responsibility. You’re building a tool that is going to be part of a large group of peoples’ daily lives; it’s going to hold their data which is precious to them; and it really, really helps to look at this problem from many different angles.

Before I ever got into management I was a front line developer for a decade so I understand the front line. I understand managing at a lead level. I understand managing managers as managers and even operating an executive role trying to manage a portfolio.

One of the things I did was at Expedia start the company’s first project management office and that was an amazing learning experience. And that’s a perspective you can only get by taking a sort of long and varied journey through business.

What would you say are the key that you look for in your core team?
It wasn’t an easy one. We look for independent thinkers; multidimensional people with a good sense of humor and a strong work ethic; people who share a vision, a passion for transforming an old industry whose user base has been starved of innovation for a long time; pretty simple, good people.
You have a number of people from Amazon, Microsoft, Google, T-Mobile, etcetera. Is there a balance in the type of people you bring on with experience with either a startup community or within larger organization?

I think you have to look for somebody who is a learner; somebody who has a hunger to keep learning and to keep problem solving and to keep doing something meaningful.

Often times in a corporate setting a lot of people have lost their fire for taking on new challenges or big challenges like this and that’s something you want to look for. Your hiring process has to be quite sound and that’s something I learned at Expedia. You have to find people who are willing to think big and join your long term strategic plan.

And when you talk to people you kind of have to dig a little bit and find out if that’s who they really are. And in terms of sort of getting diversity for the team, you look for people who maybe scare you a little bit. People who are smarter than you are and if you do that consistently you end up just rating the bar on the team every time you hire somebody.

Interview with Christian Chabot of Tableau Software

Christian Chabot, CEO of Tableau Software on the ability for users to interact with and to understand their data and how Tableau Software is allowing them to leverage their data in all new ways.

Interview conducted by Nathan C. Kaiser on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 in Seattle, WA.

I’m here with Christian Chabot of Tableau Software. Christian, would you mind giving us just a short introduction to Tableau Software?

Tableau Software makes data and databases easier to use and understand. I don’t really feel the need to use any more complex terminology than that. We believe that databases are too hard to use. They’re like the Web before Google. There’s hundreds of things you can use to poke and prod and try to make a database useful, kind of like the Web back in ’97, ’98, ’99. We all thought the problem solved, in a way, and then, all of a sudden, Google comes along and just opens your eyes to a much easier way to see and understand information.

Google is focused almost completely on unstructured data like the Web and we are focused on structured data. There are a number of similarities between the companies. We were spun out of Stanford like Google, working down the hall from them. And, whereas the Google gang was focused on unstructured data, we’re focused totally on structured data, and that’s why I use the word “database.” We think databases like Excel–which by the way, is a database contrary to popular belief–and Access and SQL Server and Oracle and Postres and MySQL, they’re just too hard to use and understand and that’s the problem we solve.

One of the things Google did was make it just inherently simple for people to find what they were looking for. Is that the Tableau approach as well, to make understanding the data extremely simple as well?
It is, and we do that in our own way. Our mission is to make information easier to see and use and understand. Simplicity, literally, is our number one brand value, cultural value, company value and at the core of what we do.

We have created a really simple user interface, it’s drag and drop and exploratory. It has unlimited undo so you can never break anything. Users can install the product in 90 seconds, connect to data of any size, shape, language, or subject in 30 seconds, and be asking their own questions of that data interactively within a couple of minutes. The best way to see whether or not what I’m saying is true is to go to our website and get a free downloadable trial in 90 seconds.

The core value that you provide to your customers, is the ability to understand their data much more intuitively.
Currently it is simply too hard to ask data some questions. I think, everyone can relate to the idea of kind of a big Excel spreadsheet packed with data, where there are just row after row after row after row. Maybe it’s an Excel and just, I don’t know, 20,000 rows or 2,000 rows or 500 rows of data. But it could also be, literally, an Oracle warehouse or an OLAP Cube or a MySQL production database with, quite literally, billions or hundreds of millions of billions of rows.

Regardless of whether it’s that Excel case or that giant billion-row case. It’s just too hard for your human brain to sit there and interrogate a database. It’s just too hard. It should be as easy, so to speak, as searching the Web. Right? Now, maybe that’s a goal we’ll never quite get to, but it should be simple and drag and drop and learnable in a few minutes. How easy is it for you, right now, to open some data and just start asking some rapid-fire questions of it. That’s what Tableau enables.

Now, of the reams of data that are acquired and aggregated every given day in any type of business whether small to large business, how much of it is actionable now, based upon their ability or inability to really take a look at what the data means to their business?
It’s all actionable to varying degrees. Regardless of how actionable it is, it can be much more actionable.

No matter what stage you are you need a simple, visual, high performance interface that you can point to that data and interrogate it, ask it questions, explore it, browse it, examine it, drill into it, zoom up, pivot it around, and give information. That’s true no matter, really, what state your data is in.

What would you say is the market opportunity, then, for a service such as Tableau to come in and help people interact with their data?

I like to think in terms of users. In terms of revenue, this is obviously in the billions of dollars. There are quite literally billions of databases on the planet. I would argue that 98% of them are too hard to use. I can tell you that from personal experience.

If you look at that market, there are certainly no fewer than five million users of a product like that. If you look at our customers and sales today, you will just see an intoxicating array of industries from, literally, three-letter secret agencies to corner grocers to restaurants to supply chain experts. Our biggest customer is Microsoft, our second biggest customer is Google. I mean, you can’t name an industry or a function or a country or a job profession that isn’t benefiting from Tableau’s discovery today. So although we’re in the tens of thousands of users today, we will not stop until we cross at least the low millions of users.

When creating a product with such a large market, how do you determine which vertical, industry or market to target first?
When you have so many millions of users to conquer how exactly do you proceed? There’s kind of a well-known book Crossing the Chasm that has become religion in the technology industry with regards to how’d you do this at least at 15,000 feet?

I think the good thing about that book and that thinking is that it correctly identifies the fact that hey you’re never going to get your 100,000th user without first getting your 50,000th user. You’re never going to get that user without getting your 1,000th user and so on and so forth and back. And so you have to try to find a way to carve that pyramid of opportunity up and advance. I think the analogy they use is kind of one bowling pin at a time.

The unfortunate thing that I have just discovered from people who have read that book is they tend to immediately think that means an industry. You know, so I’ve seen young growth companies just sit there and kind of say, “OK, we’re going to pick the financial industry!” or “We’re going to go pick the retail industry!” or “We’re going to go pick the defense in government!” and they kind of do these things on Power Point slides and offsites without any customers in the room.

And they’re not really thinking through whether or not an industry-based targeting is really the right way to attack the bowling pin. So for us, we have found that industry actually isn’t useful, at all, even though people recommend it to us quite a bit. But instead it’s more of a job function.

So, as I said earlier, you can’t name an industry that isn’t buying Tableau in significant volume anymore, and, in fact, the distribution is pretty uniform from defense, to retail, to government and finance, and, boy, just every industry you can name.

But I will say you’re still looking for early adopters right? And for us an early adopter is usually a business line manager or an analyst or an executive who’s very data-oriented of some kind. Many of our customers work in groups responsible for working with data, but not all of them. Sometimes, it’s just a…it’s a chief marketing officer or a VP of sales or supply chain director or, actually at Google, their HR department was the first group who discovered us.

And so it really–the biggest criteria for us is trying to put ourselves, put our message and put our brand in places where people who care about data and information are congregating. So I guess that’s our marketing strategy at 30,000 feet.

There are three co-founders behind Tableau Software. How did you three come to know one another and how do you divvy up your roles?
Tableau has three co-founders, and to use a familiar analogy, a triangle is a very stable structure.

Also, each co-founder has to bring something substantial as a contribution not just in the company’s first year but in the company’s first ten years. In our particular case, the key inventor of our technology is Dr. Chris Stolte who is a Ph.D. student of Pat’s. Chris is really a worldwide expert and award decorated researcher into the fields of database querying and database optimization and data analytics and information visualization.

We also have Professor Pat Hanrahan who’s probably one of the most important computer scientists in our country. His resume you can research online. It speaks for itself. He co-founded, he was one of the founding employees of Pixar, the animation studio, which revolutionized the world of animated film.

My whole background was in data and analytics. So I was very much bringing the business users’ perspective of how to do good analysis: what the problems with databases were, what the challenges of businesses and organizations had, trying to better understand information.

With three co-founders, who sets the direction and culture for the organization?

Let me answer that question in two ways. I think one of the things the founders in a company need to do is keep the company educated and on task with regard to its mission. In our particular case, the three founders are so tightly synced on that mission, no one of us plays a more prominent role than anyone else. I could trust Pat or Chris, in a second, to work with new hires in the company, as an example, or new business partners, as the case may be sometimes, and properly educate them on our place in the world and the values that we hold dear to reach the goals we have.

I meet a lot of entrepreneurs who are kind of obsessed with culture and they just act very on and “we need to be very careful about the culture and we need to write it all down and we need to post it.” And that hasn’t really been our style and then, and I actually think that can be a little condescending.

The fact is your biggest goal as a founder is to hire more fantastic people, in fact, hopefully better people than you are. Better, smarter, more accomplished. That’s your goal. And so, the start-ups who kind of post all their values and what their culture is going to be like and write it all down really early before people’s personality quirks and before the whole talented birth-base has really kind of an emerged for itself. I think can kind of force the issue and, actually, make the culture, I think, a little bit fake.

So our biggest cultural point at Tableau is number one: make sure everyone understands and then starts actively contributing to the mission of the company. Number two, that people feel like they’re in a great work environment, and they’re having fun and they’re learning new things every day, and are in jobs where they feel like they can succeed. So, they’re kind of higher-level things than just kind of writing down cultural bullet points.

What are the key characteristics you look for in new hires?
The first thing that comes to mind is creative problem solving. If you ask me what’s the single hardest thing to find out there in the market for people, it’s creative problem solvers. There are all sorts of people who have worked on successful projects, worked for successful brands, had successful experiences, who–in no way, were part of the formative group of people–who creatively solved the problems that made that project or brand a success. Quite, honestly, in an interview, you can tell in the first ten minutes.

People will often ballyhoo their attachment to a successful product or brand of some kind, which is great. You’ll, immediately, ask a follow-up question, “OK, so what did you, specifically, do to make that project a success?” Then, as they start to list those things that they can (often they can’t), and when they want to start to list those things, you then say, “What went into that decision? It all probably seems obvious now that that was good. It all probably seems obvious right now that Google’s home page shouldn’t be a portal but, how did you make that decision?”

Again, ten minutes later, you can tell clear as day whether they actually were one of the formative people who came up with the creative solutions to those difficult problems, because you can tell by their depth of thinking on the issue. When you try responding in an interview, intelligently, to a deep question about which you never, actually, thought very deeply, I can tell you weren’t one of the key creative problem solvers on the team. So anyway, a little long winded answer but that’s the hardest thing to find, if you’re asking.

What would you say are your key insights into entrepreneurship that have allowed you to be successful?
For me, this entrepreneurial journey was the culmination of everything I’ve ever done. I did software engineering as an undergrad at Stanford so I always had an interest in being involved with or building a software company in some way. I then worked as a professional data analyst for four years. I was a senior economic analyst for a research firm, and then I, actually, wrote a book on the economics of the euro, the European currency where I just struggled for data for a year and became intimately familiar again with all the problems of trying to understand data easily and fast.

Then I went to Stanford Business School where I’m happy to say to have probably just one of the most amazing entrepreneurship programs from an educational perspective. Now, some people would say entrepreneurship can’t be taught, I think there’s a lot of truth to that, but it can be. Stanford does a really good job of it. After that, I actually founded my first software company with one of the other co-founders at Tableau who is Chris Stolte, the gentleman I have mentioned earlier. That was actually an information visualization set-up of a different variety. We invented a way to better render route maps and it had a successful outcome and was sold, and it’s now used by about a million people.

So when Tableau came along, I was looking at new entrepreneurial ideas, and I realized that software engineering plus entrepreneurship plus data analysis plus information visualization, this was really the culmination of everything I’ve ever done. I felt like I had the expertise to be a formative leader, at least, for the company’s first decade or so.

When you look at start-ups what are some of the key mistakes you see being made by entrepreneurs?

The biggest one I see is people spend too much. I don’t see all that many start-ups focusing on too many things. That’s a common criticism: that a start-up tried to do too many things. That does happen, but to me, it’s nowhere near the top of the list. Most start-ups figure out pretty fast that there’s no way they can do more than a couple of things well, so why bother. So that problem will tend to fix itself although, admittedly, not always.

So things like that are sort of seventh or eighth on the list of mistakes. But the big number one and number two, number one is you’re spending too much money too fast. You’re spending money ahead of customer attraction. Number two is you are not doing enough of the hard marketing and selling work early to get the feedback you need to inform your strategic choices and your product direction.

You’ll hear an entrepreneur or start-up group say, “Hey, there’s no way we can go show a customer this thing we’re trying to do or talk with them, because it doesn’t exist yet. You know, it’s like a chicken and the egg, right? We haven’t built it, and, therefore, how do we sell it? If we can’t sell it, therefore, we can’t get feedback on what to build. Boy, what do we do?”

Almost always when someone had said this, when I would then drill down on what they actually had, I found they had more than they thought they had. They’ve formed the business. They have a mission articulated. They have drawings for the things they’re going to build and the website they’re going to launch or the consulting service they’re going to promulgate. They have references from previous people they’ve worked with. They have intimate knowledge of some problem that somehow inspired them on what to do. Most people, I just say, “Literally, wrap that up as a package and go try selling it.” I think most entrepreneurs don’t do this because they’re afraid.

To be specific, even if your product isn’t built, take the drawings, take the PowerPoint. Unless it’s so confidential you can’t possibly tell it to anyone; take it to a customer, lay it out, and ask that person how much they’d pay. It’s an interesting conversation to have. You will find the minute you ask someone to pay or become a partner or to sign on to your service in some way, go sell a free beta–I guess, that’s an oxymoron–go invite people to sign up for a free beta. And then, as they say, “No.” or “I didn’t have enough time.” or “Boy, that’s not a priority now.” listen to what they’re saying, because if they’re saying they don’t have time and it’s not a priority and I just can’t get around to it, guess what? When the product is built, they’re going to be saying the same thing. So you might as well get that feedback, hard tough love feedback, early rather than later, so you can get the boat pointed in the right direction.

What would you say is the base of that fear?

I think the fear is that even Shakespeare wrote hundreds of years ago, “Often your advantage becomes your disadvantage.” You know, Caesar’s unmistakable bullheadedness and strength and leadership and vision became hubris which caused his downfall. I mean, this is one of the great topics in leadership, generally, whether you’re talking about business leadership or political leadership, which is maybe a more timely subject. But often people’s greatest assets can, if they’re not very careful, it’s usually what the lesson is, if you’re not very careful, it can become your downfall.

In the case of entrepreneurs, just think about it. You got to be crazy to be an entrepreneur! You’ve got no customers, no product, no employees, no health care. You’ve got to leave a secure job, you have a hope and a vision and a dream. So the people who ultimately become entrepreneurs, whether they’re that corner shop owner or the founder of Cisco, they often share a real bullheadedness which is just a great strength. I mean, God bless Steve Job’s bullheadedness. Where would we be without it?

You have to be kind of obstinate and ignore what the data is telling you and go on instinct and don’t listen to criticism and just plow, plow, plow. We need entrepreneurs to have those traits. But I just happen to think when I’m, maybe in a coaching situation or being coached for that matter, is that often, you have to just be a little careful because that can become your weakness. So I think, to answer the fear question, often, people are where they are with their idea because they’re thinking differently.

So they don’t want to hear data or opinions that say it’s not going to work, and that’s partly what’s making them drive forward. But they can also become a real disadvantage because they stop listening or, in this case to your question, what I was on to there was they’re a little afraid actually. They are a little afraid after being in the basement working on this for a year and perfecting those schemas and PowerPoint slides and mission statements and sales points, they’re going to go out and be criticized whether they’re on the right track and so on.

But usually, they get over it. So my advice is that people don’t get over it; that everyone figures this out; they’re smart. It’s just that they often tend to wait; they withhold that stage of tough customer feedback just too late. In fact, I’ll put it this way, I’ve never seen a case where you did it too early. I’m sure there are cases of that but you can almost never be starting to get people’s opinions and tough feedback too early. If nothing else, it’ll just help spur your own thinking.

How as an entrepreneur do you balance your own bullheadedness while also taking into account all the feedback you receive?

You’re asking the $64 million question of entrepreneurship. You know, that’s the hardest thing. You just can’t. It’s like saying, “But what does it take to win the World Series, anyway?” If I can list a thousand things, I would, but even I can barely remember them.

If I were to give two cents of advice, I would say number one is get co-founders or get advisers. Personally, at Tableau, I am always assured that we are going to make good decisions even when I may be veering towards the wrong decision, because I have co-founders, and, by the way, beyond co-founders, it’s a team, a whole management team and a whole company full of people with strong opinions and good insights and super high IQ who you can use to really find the right path. So I guess, in a word, stop trying to do it yourself is my best answer. You need a circle of teammates or co-founders or even advisors–some people do–who can help you not be too close to the decision that you can’t see, the forest for the trees anymore.

What is your long-term plan for Tableau Software?
Our biggest dream is that we can make data everywhere–in spreadsheets and text files and little Web downloads and data marts and data warehouses and SQL Server and Oracle and Excel and in Access extremely easy to use for millions of people. Luckily, our company is growing exponentially in pursuit of that dream. We just launched our second product line, which has sold over a million dollars in its first four months of general availability. We’re launching a third in 2009, and we just want to build a whole suite of products for helping anyone of any scale anywhere install or connect to one of our products in seconds and better understand the information that’s around them in their world.

So certainly, ten years from now, without any question, we’ll be a public company. I think, in fact, we’ll be, hopefully, considering being a public company well within five years and selling products to people of all professions and industries all over the world in pursuit of that vision.

Interview with Julia Johnston & Ariel McNichol of mEgo

I’m here with Julia Johnston and Ariel McNichol both of mEgo. Can you give us an introduction to mEgo?

Julia Johnston: What we’ve created is a tool for users of social networking sites. It’s an interactive portable profile. A user creates a profile and they can share it anywhere they want online: on all their social networking sites, on their blog, on their website, and on their mobile phone. They update it from one place and it updates automatically everywhere they have posted it.

It also aggregates RSS feeds and widgets like YouTube videos, Amazon.com wish lists, flicker photos, and photo bucket photos. So it’s a combination of a widget aggregator, a portable profile and the user interface is in the form of an avatar.

How did you come up with the idea for mEgo?

Ariel: It actually came out of my frustrations and watching friends’ frustrations filling out online profiles and the need to keep filling them out over and over again every time you got into a social networking site or a dating service.

So the original inception came out of the incredible inefficiency in the way profiles are displayed. They end up being very disorganized and cluttered and ugly and it seemed like bringing in a more kind of humanistic metaphor with the avatar was a way of organizing your profile information that made it easier to access and to display and to look at.

Read more here >>

Interview with Vipin Jain, CEO of Retrevo

Vipin Jain, CEO of Retrevo has created a destination site focused on consumer electronics.

Interview conducted by Nathan C. Kaiser on Wednesday, April 9, 2008 in Sunnyvale, CA.

Vipin, would you mind giving us an introduction to Retrevo?

Retrevo is a matchmaker between people and electronics. We all have a very deep and very passionate relationship with our gadgets, and this relationship really starts pretty early on in your life when you are a single and you have lot of time and you have lot of interest in music and entertainment and you start looking for the right mate, then you find it, then you find a mate and you decide to bond with the mate or live with the mate.

You look for the right product and you find one that you want to, that you want to acquire, once you buy the product and you start understanding the products, sometimes you have issues that you want to resolve and sometimes you want to replace or upgrade. The whole process is very cumbersome, it takes lot of time and lot of expertise, and Retrevo simplifies this whole process for you, make it very easy to find, buy and use electronics.

As consumer electronics become more and more ingrained in everyday life you allow people to use them more effectively.
Consumer electronics used to be a very limited number of products. It used to be very easy to find and buy these products because you had three, four choices in each category that you wanted to acquire and these used to be stand alone products that you could walk into a store look at the three products and make a decision. Now you have thousands of options or at least hundreds of options in each category they you want to own and these are not stand alone products because they are networked, so all these products they do want to talk to each other. The content wants to move around, you do want to sometimes; you want to carry products with you.

The products have become lot more complex andthe number of options are much larger. It has become impossible for an average consumer to keep up with the knowledge and information to make the right decision.

Where specifically does Retrevo help the average consumer?
The user could get exposure to Retrevo when he is first researching or finding the product. Or when he already has a product and he is looking for a manual for the product or he has a specific question that he is looking for an answer to.

So the entry point could be different along the life cycle, once the user is exposed to Retrevo, Retrevo really becomes the destination site that user can rely on from the first time thinking about buying a product or a type of product to taking the whole journey, buying it learning the [indecipherable] or features, how to use, how to accessorize, how to upgrade replace, to manage the whole life cycle but the entry point could be different for the first time users.

I assume you are looking to monetize with an advertising model.
There are two ways we make money, advertising and an affiliate model.
Retrevo is a very targeted search engine. What are the issues associated with this type of model?
Depending on the verticals that you are in, search could be the only way to get to the information, or search could be one of the ways to get to the information. And a lot depends on what kind of information are you seeking: is it very atomic in operation, or is it more involved?

In that sense, I look at Retrevo as a destination site that consumers can rely on to manage their whole life cycle and experience around electronics. And sometimes they will search. Sometimes they will browse. Sometimes they will not need to do anything because the right information will simply come to them, based on who they are and where they are at and what they might own or wish.

It is more like a destination portal that has a very rich experience around electronics buying and owning, and all the entertainment that you desire around it. That becomes a pretty heavily used and pretty passionate relationship that you have. There is enough usage around it, there is enough spending around it, there is enough time that you spend around the whole household environment.

What are the key insights into entrepreneurship that you have learned as a serial entrepreneur?
I have started a number of companies and worked within the consumer electronics industry, started an IT business, an enterprise business and a large scalable broadband Internet service. And I’m personally an audio video enthusiast, so I love home entertainment audio video technology.

Now, in terms of learning, I think one thing that all of us learned, was to not get carried away. Building a startup not only takes a good vision and a good market that you want to go after, but it also requires systematic execution. You can only run at a certain pace. Don’t try to overrun yourself. Be conservative in your spending. Don’t burn all the cash you have, because you need that.

You need to be very, very conscientious about how your business grows and what kind of expenses you have to support that growth.

Have been an entrepreneur through the bubble of the �90s, how do you ensure that you are not kind of drinking the Kool Aid?
Honestly, I don’t think it is easy. And it’s not easy for people who haven’t been through the cycle, before. Unless you have been through the phase and you have seen things firsthand, it is very hard not to get carried away, because you’re always seeing that there are so many successes out there and there is so much excitement around a specific area, a specific market, there is no reason you should not be aggressive and you should not be out there outselling everybody and out willing everybody.

If you don’t have the firsthand experience, then you need to have a good set of people around you, whether they’re advisers, whether they’re your friends, people who have some experience with building startup businesses they have seen the cycles to advise you, and to make sure that you don’t run into the obvious pitfalls.

There is a tendency for a lot of people to get carried away and just try to build up a better social network. Just try to build a better photo sharing site. Ultimately I think if it is too much investment going into one area it is bound to collapse.

What were the key characteristics you look for in people you bring on board?
I am sure you hear it from a lot of entrepreneurs; I think the first thing you always look for is passion. Because the reason you started nPost or the reason I started Retrevo is because I had passion for what I wanted to do.

You want to have a core team that is as passionate as you are attempting to do. It could be passion for the space or it could be passion for just doing a startup. Beyond that I think what you are looking for people who are smart and people who can work hard. You want to build an ‘A’ Team, you want to bring in the ‘A’ players.

Interview with Tony Wong, CEO of ZiiTrend

Tony Wong, co-founder of ZiiTrend shares his insights into creating an online prediction market.

Interview conducted by Nathan C. Kaiser on Tuesday, April 8, 2008 in Vancouver, Canada.

I am here with Tony Wong of ZiiTrend. Tony, would you mind giving us an introduction to ZiiTrend?

Ziigo Technology is a technology company based in Vancouver B.C. Our first product or service is ZiiTrend.com which we launched on September 25th. This is what we call a social prediction platform. The goal is to bring together useful information and users together to help predicting the future.

We want to build a user driven community for making future prediction. At this point the service is free to all consumers. We are a big believer of crowd prediction or what we call social prediction, in which a collection of users predicting together would be more accurate than any individual expert can.

What is it about this type of approach that makes it so accurate or relatively more accurate?
Well, for one thing, predictions are very difficult. The reason is because there is so many potential information to be aggregated together to anticipate the future. By putting together different people from, let’s say, a different part of the country with different expertise, crowd prediction is able to aggregate all those useful information together to predict the future.

In addition we use what we call the neuro network approach in which each participating individual is like a neuron in the brain. The system is able to remember the accuracy of that person over time for future predictions. As a result, if we continue to run the system, the system is going to improve its accuracy in predicting the future.

It weights the accuracy of each individual that has done multiple predictions to determine their overall long term effect and therefore weight their ratings in future prediction.
That is correct.
What is the origin behind it and what are your plans with it?
About a year ago, my co-founder, Arthur Chui and I found a series of prediction market sites. And we were very excited about the problem of predicting the future in the Internet environment.

So we started studying the prediction markets that were available and we discovered that although the prediction market is very interesting and it does solve a lot of prediction problems, that it requires a lot of trading knowledge and the learning curve is quite high.

We thought that this would be an opportunity for us. We ended up deciding to go for this idea and developed ZiiTrend.

What types of predictions are made on the site and are there any limitations to the types of predictions that can be made?

Currently, people are interested in the United States Presidential election, and that is what people want to see or talk about. And on the other hand, if Britney Spears just makes some big news in the media, then that is what people want to know what she is going to do next. Our goal is to have a platform for the general public.

We have also discovered that the nature of the topic on the platform is very specific to a particular geographic or language market. For example, if our website is ZiiTrend.com and if most of the users are located in North America, it is obvious that most of the topics are going to be about the NFL or the U.S. Presidential elections. That is more specific to a particular local market.

What is the critical mass for this type of service in order to make a very accurate prediction?
That is very hard to say because when people look at the prediction result, they would also have to look at a number of participants in a topic. Of course when you say critical mass, what we have in mind would be at least 100 people within each topic that would have a more accurate result.
Are your predictions receiving that level of interest or that level of activity from your user base?

We are not there yet. We are at a stage where we are trying to build a critical mass. At this point we are pretty happy with the technology and the platform itself although we are continuously refining it.

What we really want to work towards right now is to have better content to attract users so that we can reach the critical mass, and exactly the space you describe in which each topic is going to have a certain number of users that it is going to produce the result that is going to be accurate.

Where do you see the key revenue opportunities for ZiiTrend?
When we planned for this project, one of the possible revenue models was a subscription model. That’s what a lot of the prediction market sites are doing which for us is a possibility because we see the strength of our platform. It is easier to use compared to traditional prediction market sites.

I am glad you asked this question because we were being approached by several small to medium size companies, inquiring about the possibility of licensing our technology for their company to use internally.

We don’t want to talk about a hundred people participating in a hundred topics. We want about 10,000 people participating in a mass amount of topics. In order to do that, a subscription model is not going to work for us. That’s why you have to go for a free service for the end users, and at the same time we prefer to go for the advertising model in this.

Would it be more difficult to scale with a subscription service than with a free model?
Yes. But, we are not ruling out the possibility of having a subscription model. It is just not what we are focusing on at this point.

What is the most interesting prediction you have seen on the site?

Of course, while we are working on the platform we also participated in it as well. I would say personally I am very interested in product prediction. Which I think that is another possible revenue model for us as well because if our site is going to have a lot of product or future product predictions or something that is going to be released next, there is a lot of potential in affiliated sales.

For example, if someone comes to our website and predicts: Will iPhone 3.0 be popular?

If we happen to have a lot of users participating in the same topic, then there is a chance to have other companies sell their product on our website.

What degree of accuracy do you feel you can achieve with this type of prediction service?
Well, continuing to improve the accuracy of the platform is very essential for us. At the same time we want to seek a balance and make sure that the topics on our platform are also useful and attractive enough for the end user.

First of all, we believe that our algorithm of our neuro network is accurate, and it will be able to continuously improve itself. That’s the important part. In order to do that, what we have to do is make sure that the users will not just find our topic useful and come back once; we want to make sure that they continue to come back and find our platform useful.

As I said before, each individual is like a neuron, and the system has to remember how accurate each individual is. So if they are not coming back then the algorithm will, of course, fall apart.

Can you talk a little bit about the relationship between ZiiTrend and the corporate entity? What is that relationship, and why did you decide to create that type of architecture when you created the company?
I think it has to do with why Arthur and I came together and decided to start our own business or have our own startup company. It is because we believe in owning a company that continues to push out innovation, no matter what innovation it is. The first idea with the best potential we found was ZiiTrend.com, and that’s what we decided to focus on as our first service. The reason I put it this way is because in the future we do have the potential of introducing other services.
How do you manage the relationship with your co-founder?
Well first of all, both of us have a technical background, and we have a lot of passion in solving technical problems. We have worked together for a number of years. In the beginning I was working as a developer, then later on moving to custom software design and project management. As I started to get more business side experience, I got more interested in starting my own business. Also, Arthur has similar background, and we came together and decided to start the company.

For sure, one thing is the technical knowledge we got from our previous job experience does help us a lot in making sure that we build a platform in a timely manner. For one thing, because of my project management experience, I have been making sure that the project goes smoothly and at the same time, Arthur also worked in a dot com company before this, too. That actually helps us a lot technically in making sure that we are able to scale out and making sure our website is going to lead up to a standard.

When you look at your entrepreneurial experience, what would you say are the key insights into starting a company you’ve learned?
Whenever we found a unique idea that there were a number of companies doing it for at least a year already. The key is to not let that bother us because sometimes even though somebody else or some other companies are doing the exact same idea, there are probably gaps to be filled, and there are probably other geographic or language markets that they haven’t tapped into. Do not assume that your idea is so innovative and unique.

It is very important to launch with a very simple concept. As we developed the product we found that it was way too complicated. From that point on we have continued to simplify it and refine it to make sure that the idea stays simple.

Lastly, we are big believers in pushing out the product as soon as possible and then try to get feedback ASAP, instead of polishing the product to a point at which we think it is perfect. Then when we pushed it out, we found out that a lot of things just didn’t work.

Being located in Vancouver, British Columbia, what are some of the key benefits and negativities of being associated with being in a city that is outside of Silicon Valley?
Well, when we first started the company, the Canadian dollars were not that high so… Talent here is relatively cheaper and more affordable than the talent in the United States. Being on the west coast, we do have a lot more IT companies here so doing networking, doing training or getting talent, we believe is relatively easier.

At the same time it also has something to do with often hiring graduates only if they lived in Vancouver. We never thought about the possibility of setting up the office somewhere else even if the talent we are looking for is located somewhere else.

Interview with Ron Yekutiel, CEO of Kaltura

Ron Yekutiel, on creating a platform for the next generation of interactive media.

Interview conducted by Nathan C. Kaiser on Monday, April 7, 2008 in New York, NY.

I’m here with Ron Yekutiel, who is the chairman and CEO of Kaltura. Ron, would mind giving us an introduction to Kaltura?

Kaltura is a platform that enables groups of people to collaborate together in the creation of rich media. Kind of a YouTube meets Wiki. We’d like to say that we bring forth the collaborative concept that is enabled in the Wiki platforms by way of text into the realm of video. We do so, as I’ve said, as a platform that would like to enable any other sites and social networks to empower their own users in that collaborative action. We also have our own kaltura.com website that exemplifies the use within a separate domain. However, we’d like to basically empower different sites and social networks to do so.
What was the origin?
A number of different founders came together and began asking ourselves about the next step, the next level. Between us, we have a co-founder of ICQ, Cyota, a secure online service fro VISA.

We felt that the world is moving from telling to selling to sharing and then to collaborating. And we’ve looked into platforms like the Wiki, as I’ve said, and like SourceForge that are promoting collaboration between people and have asked ourselves what’s the next step within the collaboration realm. And the natural answer that we believe is that it will come by way of rich media. That’s how we had come up with the idea.

While video is extremely popular online, it’s still very nascent. How do you as a company capture that community and get them to begin engaging in this new approach to sharing information?

Ron: That’s a very good question. I think one of the points that we looked at was the number of cell phones are out there with video cams. How many potential contributors are there to bring video into the net? We see that this is immensely high compared to the amount of contributors at YouTube and at other video sites.

Therefore, the main goal as we have seen it was to lower the barriers of contribution, lower the barriers of participation to enable a great group of people to go ahead and participate. We looked at YouTube and looked at the lowest nodes within that pyramid, which is the people who are uploading video, and asked ourselves if there’s a way to add another lower node under that. Is there a way to add a whole new base, knowing that there is a ratio of one to 99 between creators and viewers?

Our answer to that question was the collaborative concept. The nature of the lowest contributor in the YouTube environment was a creator of a composition. Somebody who is out there who is looking for something that’s globally appealing, and effective. We’d like to get that person to contribute something.

Participants in the Kaltura platform need to do far less than what that they need to do on YouTube for three reasons: number one, they need only contribute a very small piece and somebody then edits. It could be somebody from their community or somebody else, but it’s enough that they bring forth a picture, a small video clip, something small. Therefore their needs or their barriers are lowered.

Second is the fact that they’re actually invited to do so. If you take into consideration somebody wanting to do a collaborative greeting card and inviting all their friends to participate, the fact that they get a direct request from the person managing this makes it easier then for them to come up with the idea to start with, like with YouTube.

Third is that they have a vested interest in the result. Whatever the collaborative group creation is, each of the individuals has something to gain by it. So if it’s a call for action that’s done by a group of people, they have something of an up side. If it’s a group of travelers that would like to do a collaborative travel log, they have something to gain from that. If it’s a greeting card, something as well.

So these three points, we believe, are such as would empower more people to participate in the concept of collaborative creation and as such add a whole new layer with a lower barrier and with that break the limitation that you have mentioned with the amount of participation in the web today.

What is the top level of interest; travel, music, politics, etc?

I think what’s always interesting in regards to being online is that you don’t know what people will want or do.

Some of the stuff is more obvious. We see a lot involving music people creating music clips together in groups. We see stuff involving travel. We see stuff involving short fiction or creation of humorous videos different formats of that nature. We see greeting cards done together. Sometimes its citizen journalism somebody that just came back from Burma and took a lot of pictures there, and somebody adds to that.

In terms of the different utilizations for a service such as Kaltura, which ones have the highest viral component?
Well, we found today music to be a key component. There’s thousands of bands that have started up stuff on our site. I think that it is less the actual nature of the collaboration but the tools that we empower. Kaltura.com has a full widget strategy in which the site itself I would say is the factory where the collaboration takes place. The promotion of that collaboration is done completely within the realm of other social networks.

So if you are a band, for example, and you have a MySpace page and you’d like to engage all your fans to create together a collaborative clip between all the fans, you will come to our site as the band startup page that’s completely customized and post that widget within your MySpace page. It’s there actually that the viral component will take place. Then when the people see that and click on our widget they will be able to come to our environment, add clips, edit clips together, etc.

What are the pros and cons between creating a platform and creating a destination site?
That’s a pivotal question. Insofar as the general question about building startups and timing in the market and what you want to achieve, I think that we have over the course of the last few years a growing amount of affinity groups being formed on the net. Had we been here maybe a few years back it may have been the right strategy to go ahead and created a destination site.

With a destination site, you have earn 100% of the revenue associated with advertising and can create a stronger brand. Having said that, it is much more difficult to build a market. You need to convince the market, with a lot of marketing money, and divert people from otherwise being at other sites into your own site. Our core understanding when we looked into the aspect of collaboration is that people will not just meet for the sake of collaborating. They will already meet for the sake of a different purpose, be it the subject that they are all passionate about or a site that they all feel comfortable to use as their platform.

The advantages of creating a platform are huge insofar as penetration rates. It’s enough that you’ve closed several agreements, and people embed your tool. Immediately, you have access to a great amount of users, but you get the support of that but set to market this.

In some cases, if you let them host the actual videos, it may take away complexities and cost associated with the streaming. We enable both sides that host so that it was on one end as well as letting our partners host it.

In terms of technicalities, it produces for us a lot of other complex issues related to security, related to education, related to an open architecture for databases all of the scalability and reliability issues that relate to an SDK.

But, I think that part of the advantage is having a group of technical and business people that have done so successfully in the past and know how to do this as well here at Kaltura.

How do you plan to generate revenue, and how does that affect your relationship with your partner sites?
It would be something very premature, but I would like to focus on the advertising because that’s probably going to be the lion’s share of our revenues. That is also divided into two parts. One is our sites that are directly driven or applications driven by Kaltura; in our case, kaltura.com and Facebook applications which we actually manage and therefore we’re going to enjoy the benefits of sponsorship opportunities as well as advertising opportunities.

In addition we do license our tools to some partners. The licensing fee is essentially a revenue share based upon advertising.

A huge advantages if you focus primarily on revenue share is the barrier of entry with partners is lower because when they gain the money you gain the money as well. I think that the huge benefit that most of these partners appreciate is the swarm effect, if you may, that is created because of our platform enabling end on end interaction between the users. You just see right now is more of a dialogue in which people can talk directly to the brand and back, submit stuff and get things back. In order to really open up the conversation to be between any user and any user in which you can create what people call now the swarm effect they need to use a platform such as ours. The repercussions of that are a dramatic increase in the time spent inside the viral effect as well as potential revenues coming out from that.

As a serial entrepreneur, what are the key issues in balancing creating a consumer service that is built through partnerships?

Well, I think first of all that it’s important to know what you don’t know and it’s important to pick your partners accordingly. We have four cofounders in the company, all of us complimenting each others’ abilities.

We put a lot of focus on running things through us and through additional people on our team, with a very robust advisory board where there are professionals in their field. The key is first and foremost knowing what you don’t know and making sure that there are people out there that can help you.

I think beyond that, it’s important to remember that the solutions that are successful tomorrow are often not the same ones that were yesterday. I think that often a broad approach and broad experience may develop a solution that’s better than a very specific approach. I think there are a lot of things that could be learned from industries that are outside of the Internet, definitely from things that are more from the professionals here inside.

If you look at distribution as an important aspect in how you capitalize on partnerships to create, in our case a nesting egg strategy, more so than just a destination site may be a more fitting strategy as a shared review of what we’re trying to do now in the market. I think I would focus on that people and a strategy that is not just about enviro marketing but about partnerships and how they would lead to the right expansion into the market.

In terms of your experiences in the entrepreneurial community, what are some of the key mistakes that you see other entrepreneurs making?
Many people build something that is nice with a viral component, but it doesn’t necessarily have lasting power. That’s a mistake. You have to pick a team that you feel comfortable with.

You also have to grow with your business. Many times, entrepreneurs won’t gauge the need of their business accurately and are either at a loss for resources or have too many.

You’ve repeatedly discussed the importance of hiring the correct team. How do you identify what you’re not good at and how do you identify those traits in other individuals?

We’re looking for people who mesh well with groups, with people who are open minded to different ideas. In addition we are looking for people who are not afraid to be opinionated. Who are goal oriented.

What is your long term plan for Kaltura?
We’d like to become an industry standard for the collaborative creation of rich media objects. Our repository site at kaltura.com will be the place, the directory, to come and find these if you’re not looking for them in any of the discrete partnership areas. You may common search I would like for people to come and know that if they’re looking for something that’s created by a group they go to kaltura.com. They search for it. They will immediately find it where ever it’s hiding at whatever site it’s at.
As a former Major in the Israeli Air Force, what are the key traits that are instilled in the military that are beneficial to, to start ups?
First of all, there are excellent people in all walks of life with all experiences in life. So, nothing I’m going to say right now is going to take away from the ability to find the exact same person without a military background. So, I don’t think there’s any one way to reach those traits.

Having said that, people who have served in the military have learned about planning and execution to achieve their objectives.

There is also a high degree of loyalty. You know how to stick with people in a foxhole and how to cover their back.

Interview with Steven Goh, CEO of Mig33

Steven Goh, co-founder of Mig33 on the emergence of third party services within the mobile market. Photo is of Steven Goh and co-founder, Mei Lin Ng.

Interview conducted by Nathan C. Kaiser on Friday, April 4, 2008 in San Francisco, CA.

I’m here with Steven Goh of Mig33. Steven, would you mind giving us an introduction to your startup?

Mig33 aims to be the world’s largest independent mobile Internet community. Our vision is to have a few hundred million users in the mobile Internet world using a whole range of services.
What was the origin of the idea?
This is my second startup. I founded Australia’s first and one of the largest online stock brokerages in Australia, which was acquired in 2003. I was kicking around some ideas with my cofounder, Mei Lin, who was my marketing manager at the time, and we were looking for an opportunity on the global stage.

We saw that with the rise of application environments and the decline of the historical walled gardens that there was a lot of opportunity in the mobile space. We launched our first product in 2003, which unfortunately didn’t go anywhere. We went back to the drawing board and launched Mig33 at the end of 2005. We now have over eight million users.

What would you say is the reason that the first attempt didn’t succeed and why Mig33 is doing so well?
I think some of the reasons why the first product didn’t work had to do with value proposition that is, having sufficient valuable for the mobile consumer and I think we were probably about a year and a half too early into the market. Having said that, we took a lot of great lessons from that experience, from the failure of the first product, and Mig33′s sort of runaway success is a testimony to our ability to learn from our organizational mistakes and address them for the future.

The mobile market has matured to the point now where companies such as Mig33 can be successful.

I think the global mobile environment has matured. Over the past few years, I know everyone in the mobile industry has talked about the mobile Internet being just around the corner, and I think, in the international stage, that is certainly the case.
The mobile market worldwide, the adoption now is something like four times what it was just a few years ago.
The international mobile market is still growing very strongly, although not as fast as it has over the last five years. I think a lot of that has to do with the economics for the next billion Internet users. People buy their mobile phones internationally, as a status symbol. It’s the computing power. It’s a representation of their lifestyle. Whereas, in perhaps more mature, richer economies, kids might have a car, a PC at home, and a mobile phone.

And then, in these other countries, people may not have a car. A computer at home, if they had one, would be a shared resource. And as a result, their personal entertainment, their lifestyle, and their status device is their mobile phone. So it’s very much the mobile phone represents the concentration of computing power for pretty much a few billion people on the planet.

On your website, you talk about Voice over IP, chat, SMS, etc. How does that work in a carrier agnostic way?

Unlike the desktop environment, where people can write applications of a certain size, in the mobile world, it’s an extremely constrained device. So one of the biggest issues is: how do you produce a very tiny application that can do a lot? Our largest application, is only 135K in size. But through that, we deliver a whole range of mail, social networking services, photo capture and uploading, chat rooms, voice applications all these many rich services, all through the one tiny footprint.
Your service allows users to use services outside of their carrier.
That’s correct. So, on the one hand, the voice elements may seem threatening to a carrier. But on the other hand and we have a dozen or so carriers around the world promoting our service.

For our customers we’re delivering a data customer to a network operator and a very intense data user at that. Our customers typically send anything between one and 10 megabytes of data a month, which is obviously something that many carriers would love to have.

What has been the response from other carriers that have seen a number of Mig33 users in their system?

I think they’ve been surprised. We’ve literally popped up from the middle of nowhere.

In one country, we’re aware of one carrier that’s spent a few years to acquire some 50,000 or so data users. And then, in a period of about four months, we delivered to them three quarters of a million data users. And whilst they were initially unhappy with the voice element to start with, they did recognize that it didn’t affect their voice revenues at all. If anything, it was clear that we were taking voice revenues away from a number of other prepaid, international calling card operators.

And we delivered to this particular carrier literally several hundred thousand data users. So they were extremely happy, and actually started putting us on their deck. They actually wrote to us to tell us what had happened, and we were pleasantly surprised with it.

Has the service been beneficial for all your carrier partners?
I would say for many of the carriers. It’s interesting to see that a few of them have actually picked up on us and have actually started promoting the service. Once again, it started with a couple, and I think we’ve got about a dozen carriers which are now promoting the service.

As one of our shareholders, who’s very familiar with the carrier space, describes it, he describes it as a swing product. That is, it’s basically competing in a segment that many carriers barely get substantial revenues from anyway, because once again, prepaid calling cards are a feature of just about all markets. But here they actually swing a valuable data customer on board, which is something that, in many cases, they’re struggling to educate. Whereas here is a compelling application that drives a lot of data usage, and they’re all very happy with us.

From a user perspective, someone that is utilizing the Mig33 service: if I were a customer, am I allowed to call or contact someone via voice that is not currently a Mig33 customer, or is it just all within the network?

That’s correct. You would actually use our service to initiate a call, and it would actually call back through the voice channel back to your phone, and connect the other user once again through the voice channel, if you wanted to get in touch with another non Mig33 user.

But once again, I keep coming back to something that’s the theme in everything that we’ve done here, and that is we’re giving our customers choice. And I think this is a period very similar to the 1995-1996 period, when AOL, MSN, and CompuServe were dictating what they thought was their customers’ best choice for their Internet experience.

But as history has shown, people want choice. And if you look at the landscape for Internet usage now, you can see how customer choice has made the market much bigger for everyone. And it’s seen such incredible companies, like Google and Yahoo and eBay and Amazon, rise from that.

What are the different revenue models that you’ve incorporated, or that you plan to incorporate, for Mig33?

Our customer base is growing at several hundred thousand a month and they are sending some 35 to 40 million messages a day through our service, almost entirely through our own platform.

And in the chat rooms, which is a very popular service we have 160,000 active chat rooms. We have features that we charge for within these services.

And so what has happened in the past is that we give away the service largely for free, and we’ve been charging for the voice elements. But as of just the last three weeks, when we started charging for kicking, that makes up nearly a quarter of our revenues now. So I think that is a sign of the future of what is to come for our company, and that is that we’ll continue to deliver a whole range of these virtual goods, or these premium actions, within the service and charge for them. The important thing is to give the core of the service away for free.

From an entrepreneurial perspective, the key is to really keep an open mind as to how you could possibly generate revenues.
That’s correct. So what we’re not doing I think we’re just trying to be very practical about how our users are growing and what are the ways to finance and monetize the user base. I know that there are many companies which are trying to build a mobile community on the speculative possibilities that they might drive ad revenues two, three, four years from now. But understanding the nature of the international markets and what are the opportunities to pay for things, we’re being very practical about what’s required.

So, hence there’s the voice element, which people traditionally understand, because they’re all socialized into prepaid calling cards. And then there’s this progressive adding of other forms of virtual goods and behaviors just so that, with people’s wallets, they can do more than just simply making cheap voice calls.

You have started companies with a lot of legislative and regulatory hurdles. Is that a barrier to entry that you really focused on when you were starting both companies, once you gained market shares, in terms of your competitive advantage?

I think, for many people, the regulations may seem prohibitive and, in some cases, create a natural barrier to entry. I think a message for all entrepreneurs is that regulation is, in many cases, there to help the consumer, or it exists for a particular set of reasons. And it’s important not to be scared of it. Regulation’s just another part of what you have to deal with in actually building a company.

And I know that there are a lot of people which, they look at how difficult the regulatory environments may be around the world in different industries, and I think it’s just something that you just, you just don’t get too distracted by!

I would assume, once you do gain that market traction and scale, it does offer a competitive advantage from someone else who would be looking at starting or entering into that market.
That’s correct. There are some opportunities created by the regulatory environment for sustained competitive advantage. But I think also, I suppose as a warning to people, the regulatory environment can shift and change like the weather, as it were, and it’s important just not to be too distracted by it.
And in terms of your experience of starting two companies, what would you say is a key insight into entrepreneurship that you’ve learned? And what would you say are also the biggest mistakes that you have made or you see other entrepreneurs making?

I think it’s so important for the entrepreneur to recognize his or her role in orchestrating a startup, in understanding what the opportunity is, setting the vision and orchestrating the way that the startup takes place. And by that I mean building the right team to deliver on the vision, attracting the right shareholders, building the right board, and not losing sight of that vision. Entrepreneurs play an extremely important leadership role in helping and leadership is such an important thing, that it’s about making people better than what they would otherwise be, to aspire to do things they would not otherwise do.

I think those are key roles for any entrepreneurs. I think my mistakes are legion, and I think if you’re not making mistakes, you’re not trying hard enough. Every entrepreneur will tell you how true that adage is. I think if I’ve ever made a lot of mistakes, it’s come down to not building a team fast enough and not running hard and fast enough, simple as that. You’ve just got to run. You’ve got to build the team fast and run like hell.

With your experience as an Australian entrepreneur, and now in the United States, what are some of the key differences in the entrepreneurial communities between the two countries?
I think there are very many parallels between the entrepreneurial spirit in Australia and here in the Valley. In Australia, resource deprivation and the entrepreneurial spirit in the mining industry, means there’s a strong culture with an appetite for risk and an appetite for managing risk, which I think is a big part of entrepreneurship. I think the environment here in Silicon Valley has been fantastic. The one thing Silicon Valley has over many other parts of the world is critical mass. I think that’s very exciting. I think the level of internationalism, though it’s a very different form of internationalism here in Silicon Valley than it is in Australia. I think that’s just another challenge to deal with.
Can you quantify that for me, in terms of the internationalism?

It’s an incredible melting pot, for the best of North America and the best of the world seem to find their way here. I think there’s a certain pace of competition, and the way competition works in Silicon Valley leads to there is a certain level of myopia. I don’t think that’s a bad thing, because the world looks to Silicon Valley for leadership.

But I think that there are some experiences which are unnatural in Silicon Valley that, perhaps, the rest of the world is experiencing. And being able to see those opportunities from what is happening around the rest of the world sometimes those sort of opportunities, they’re not readily experienced here.

And as an example, we’re clearly in the mobile space. And I can drive up and down the 101, and you wouldn’t go 10 miles without dropping a phone call. Whereas, say, in Hong Kong, I could be in an office building, go down the lift, into the subway, underneath the harbor which is a deep water harbor out the other side into a subway, into another lift, and up a building, and I would not lose a mobile phone connection, nor would I lose a mobile data connection, as an example. So I think that’s a frustration. But having said that, it’s just another challenge.

In terms of the team that you’ve hired, what are some of the key characteristics that you look for?

I think that, since entrepreneurialism is important, we want to very much build a culture of results driven innovation here. It’s so important that everyone has that sort of can do attitude when confronting new or uncertain problems, both technically and organizationally and business wise.

And I think, for ourselves, we’ve deliberately tried not to hire from the mobile world, because I suspect that many people who have been in the mobile industry over the past few years have been scarred by many bad network operator experiences and not through any fault of their own. But I think this new mobile opportunity requires the disciplines that people may have had from their successes in the Internet age. So we’ve been deliberately trying to hire people with Internet experiences and successes.

We’ve also been trying to hire people which have had, also, international life experiences, because, as with any company, being passionate about our consumers both here in North America and internationally is going to play such an important part, I suppose, for the key success factors for this company going forward. So, trying to create that sort of culturally rich, blended mix within the firm has been important to me.

I suppose those would describe, really, the sort of characteristics of the people that we’ve been looking for.

My final question is, how did you come upon the name “Mig33″?
So, in this user generated world, it’s a user generated name. In getting the basic products and services out the door, we had a panel of a couple of dozen kids that we were working with to try to find what we felt was the right or the best experience for them. And we asked them to come up with a name, and Mig33 was the name they came up with.

hosting